Interview with Nelson Guimarães of Amazon, about His Working Experience in Japan

Video Interview with Nelson

Transcript of The Video

Ryoko: Thank you for joining us today at EJable. It’s really great to be able to have you on our site to share your experience because when I went through your LinkedIn profile, I saw that you’ve been in and out of Japan a couple of times. So, I was really curious as to your story and why you still choose to. Work here in Japan.

Nelson: Sure. And yeah. Thanks for having me. Actually, the very first time I came to Japan was through the internship program that my university offered. But there, you don’t get to pick exactly which country you want to go to. So, the first time I came to Japan was in 2012 for a three-month internship.

Ryoko: OK, I see.

Nelson: That was my first encounter with Japan, I thought it was very interesting. So, I decided to go back, finish my studies and come back to Japan.

I studied a little bit of Japanese and got the offer in 2017 and then came back to Japan.

I stayed in Japan until 2019, and in September 2019, my company sent me on an expat program to Switzerland. I worked there for almost 2 years, and then when the program finished, I came back to Japan again and have been working here since then, that is, since 2021.

Ryoko: And what do you do now? If you could share that with us.

Nelson: I am a data scientist at Amazon, and that has been my field of work for most of my career. I have also worked as a data analyst as a BI engineer, but mostly, I have been working in the data science field.

Ryoko: OK. And where did you finish your studies, like your last studies?

Nelson: Yeah, so my education was a bit unconventional. I did my bachelor’s degree in computer engineering from Brazil. I finished that in 2014.

And usually in Brazil, people who go for masters are those who want to be in academia, I mean teaching, right? So, it’s not popular to do a master’s for people who want to go to work for companies.

Ryoko: Right.

Nelson: So, I didn’t think about, like, doing a master’s then.

And also, because the computer engineering degrees are long in Brazil, it already has the contents that, for example, in Europe and Japan, they would have in the master’s degree.

So, you are already considered a specialized professional with a computer engineering degree in Brazil.

However, that was a bit of a clash in Japan. I encountered some companies who would like to have a master’s degree just for the sake of having one.

Considering that, I started doing an online master’s from Georgia Tech, which is an American University and they have a great program.

So, I started studying that when I was in Brazil, and because it was online, I knew that I could continue it even if I wanted to move to work abroad. It took me a long time to finish it, but I finally finished when I was already in Japan in 2022. So, I took a break, but then, I finally finished. So, I think it’s a good option for people who want flexibility.

Ryoko: Right. And I do see that online masters are now becoming more popular.

Nelson: Right, that’s right.

Ryoko: Yeah, that’s a great option.

Nelson: They became much more popular now because of COVID, but back then, also I didn’t want to stop working and wanted the flexibility. So that’s what I choose. And I think now people respect online courses more.

Ryoko: Right, that’s true. So, in the beginning, you said that the first encounter being here in Japan was kind of an accident with your internship program, and then by being here for a couple of months, you thought that you might want to come back later. What were the things that made you want to come back and work here?

Nelson: So, I think I always wanted to live and work abroad, at least for some period of my life. So, though I had this in mind, I didn’t have any specific place in mind.

However, I was always attracted by big cities. You know, I am from the countryside of Brazil. So, I think this idea of being in a gigantic city was exciting for me. I did work a little bit in Sao Paulo. But then, when I got to live in Tokyo and saw the very nice lights of the night, I think that had an impact on me.

And I think because it was so different from the culture where I’m from, it makes it even more attractive for me. You know, because of the differences, it was interesting.

And, of course, all the things that people praise about Japan, like safety, and yes, also the opportunities – like, Japan has much more opportunities in my field compared to Brazil, at least when I was living there. So, it was also a good professional decision.

Ryoko: Ah, I see, great. Then maybe moving on to your current job at Amazon. What do you like working there as a data scientist? And also, about the working environment, because when I hear Amazon, I do imagine the states. And so, I’m wondering if the working environment is more international compared to other very Japanese companies.

Nelson: My experience in Japan is mostly international companies, right? So, yeah, I think Amazon in Japan is definitely more on the international side. People most often communicate in English. Especially if you are in the tech domain, there are some domains with more Japanese, but I think compared to and average company in Japan, yeah, you definitely feel the number of people from other countries is much higher.

Ryoko: Right.

Nelson: So yeah, I think that’s definitely a plus. I think usually I think foreign workers tend to want to gravitate towards an international working style.

I think even Japanese workers tend to value working in an international environment.

And yeah, I think what I like most about Amazon is that I get to work on complex problems and the people that I work with. The people I work with are really highly skilled in their field, their chosen field. So, there’s a lot to learn from them.

And they are referenced in many areas in how to use data and how to democratize data. So, I think you will get to learn a lot. And you can take and use those experiences in whatever you do later.

Ryoko: Right. OK, great. Yeah, that sounds amazing. Then could you tell me about any kind of differences in the working styles, including project execution styles in Japan, from your experiences of working in Switzerland or in general abroad?

Nelson: So, as I said, because. I worked mostly for international companies. I didn’t get to see the differences. I work mostly for Amazon and for Philip Morris. And these companies are similar in international standards.

Ryoko: Right.

Nelson: So, for example, working for Philip Morris in Switzerland or Japan, you see a lot of similarities, right? But you do see some cultural differences.

I think what is known for Japan is the avoidance of conflicts 😊. So, I think in terms of discussions, it tends to be a bit more nuanced the way you want to make your points come across, right? And there was even training in a company, not in my current company, where they were teaching people who come from abroad how to deal with discussions in Japan 😊.

Ryoko: OK.

Nelson: So, like cultural preparation. And I think, I mean, I don’t think that they teach foreign workers in Switzerland how to negotiate 😊.

Ryoko: Yeah, yeah 😊.

Nelson: So, I think that’s because Japanese culture is so unique that they try to teach you how things are done here, right?

And yeah, you’ll see in the overall business how the Japanese branches of international businesses tend to stand out compared to the branches in other countries 😊. In terms of things that usually assist them in Japan, is only used in Japan. Like, some processes only exist in Japan. While talking to other friends working with other international companies, they tell similar stories. So yeah.

Ryoko: Oh, cool. But, having discussions in a nuanced way, is it something you had to adapt to, or was it easy to just get into the flow?

Nelson: I think you need to adapt, right? And some people don’t adapt, right 😊? So, I think that it can be difficult to change things, you know. If you want to propose some change, it can be difficult to implement the change even if you think that it has merits, like the argument that this is how things are done and we’re going to change the balance that currently exists. This balance is usually taken into account if you want to change something.

Ryoko: Yeah, yeah, right. OK, I see. Then maybe thinking about the future, do you have a plan to stay here much longer? Like do you have kind of a goal for working here in Japan?

Nelson: No, I don’t. I don’t put any specific goals about how long I want to stay. I think it depends on the opportunities that you have.

I can say that I feel very satisfied with life in Japan. I think overall, everything that you get here in Japan, you know, it’s difficult to get in other countries, right?

I often tell some friends that Japan has solved some problems that all the other countries are still trying to solve, like many countries would love to have this sense of social stability that exists here, which comes from the labor laws and also the safety.

Of course, there are some drawbacks to that, but I think a lot of people would want to be able to live in a society like this. You know the level of courtesy and politeness that you have in your daily encounters. It really removes a lot of tension and stress. And I think people realize that when they live here and compare from inside.

Ryoko: That’s true. Right.

Nelson: So, I think, yeah, each country has its own thing. So, in thinking about moving to another country, it also depends on what are the things you need to give up and what you are gaining.

Ryoko: OK, great. Then moving on to the social side of living in Japan, do you have any aspects of Japanese culture and traditions that you like or that you don’t like?

Nelson: Well, if I think again, I think because I don’t speak Japanese, I mean, my Japanese skills are very limited, so everything that I experience is very limited. I do have a Japanese wife, so she ends up being like an intermediator for many things that I experience.

Ryoko: Right.

Nelson: But I can imagine someone like me who would come at first by himself or herself to Japan. He or she would get limited exposure to a lot of the things that Japan could offer, right? It is still a struggle even if you do speak the language or you’re trying to learn. I think it’s challenging to, yeah, feel integrated. So, if someone truly wants to feel integrated, which some people don’t care, I think it’s difficult initially.

Ryoko: So, would you, kind of, advise people who wish to work in Japan to start learning Japanese beforehand?

Nelson: I think some people would say just it’s Japanese. But yeah, they should also consider that if they like don’t have a language background that matches Japanese; for example, if you already know Mandarin, it is a much shorter learning curve. But if they come from a different language background, like a Latin language, then they really have to study Japanese so much.

In that case, I think you should consider what is the amount of effort that you wish to put into the language against other skills.

I learned Japanese enough from my daily life, but after some point, I could spend more time learning either Japanese or specializing in my own field. And the decision is basically that if I spend the same time studying Japanese, it wouldn’t be enough for me to get higher positions in my own field. That wouldn’t make sense because it would take an amount of time.

So, I think it’s good if you can speak another language, but even after you have learned it for many years, you’ll still be like JLPT N1 in Japan. You still will not have the same level as a native. So, you still never be as competitive. So, it’s better if you can build advantages outside the language as well.

Ryoko: Ah, OK, yeah, that’s great advice. I’ve never thought about it like that, but right, right.

Then are there any? Well, I guess, yeah, you do work in an international company, so the working culture of Japan doesn’t really apply in the same way, but are there some things that you don’t like or that you wish could change in the future?

Nelson: I mean, as I said, most of my experience has been with international companies, but I did have experience with some Japanese companies as an intern and with my first company in Japan. They were very traditional Japanese companies, and I am glad that I lived through that.

Ryoko: OK 😊

Nelson: But I simply don’t want to do it 😊. So, I experienced the exchange of Meishi or the morning rituals where everybody recites the company goals and company missions. And you clap about it 😊. So, I have worked in companies like that.

Ryoko: Oh, I didn’t know 😊.

Nelson: And very strict like codes like dressing code and all. So, I experienced a lot of that. And I think that’s something, I believe, is like the worst of Japanese traditional Japanese business culture. The old school. The strong hierarchy and that you are evaluated more by the time that you spend on your work during the day than the actual work.

Ryoko: Yeah, that’s true.

Nelson: So, it’s not very meritocratic and doesn’t make for an environment where people want to work. And yeah, I do feel like Japanese young Japanese people also don’t want to work that way, right? But because the old-school mentality controls it, it’s difficult to change. So, I think a Japanese company that wants to stand out and attract more talented people, I think they have an easy way to do that.

Ryoko: Right. Yeah, yeah, I do hope that that changes, at least slowly. Then, what do you do or like to do in your free time apart from work?

Nelson: Uh, uh, I go to the gym like, uh, like that is my hobby. I’m a foodie, so I love to eat out. Like every weekend, I go to a different restaurant. So, this is what I like the most. And that’s something that maybe a lot of people who never lived in Japan don’t know that Japan is excellent in terms of food. Not only is the variety, so you don’t have to feel that you have to eat only Japanese food, but you can find everything in Tokyo. And it’s very affordable if you compare that you cannot eat the same quality for the same price if you go to Europe, for example, right?

So, I guess the availability and affordability make a very good experience for anyone who enjoys eating.

Ryoko: Oh, I see. Do you get to eat Brazilian food as well?

Nelson: Yeah, some people don’t know, but Brazilian is one of the biggest communities in Japan.

Ryoko: Oh, I didn’t know that.

Nelson: Yes, it is. Yeah, it’s a particular part of history that some people may be interested in. And the first or second biggest Japanese community outside Japan is also in Brazil.

There was a big exchange of population in the past. So yeah, that’s why you get Brazilian cuisine very easily available. And yeah, it’s very good for those who don’t know, and they should try.

Ryoko: Yeah, for sure. OK then, I guess if you’ve lived in the countryside of Brazil, Tokyo is very busy and very crowded. Is it something that you would like or you don’t?

Nelson: Yeah, nobody likes to have to commute. For me, I did live in share houses. So, it’s affordable, and then you can live close to the office, right? So, if you’re short on the budget and don’t mind living with other people, I recommend moving to a shared house and saving some time commuting. And if you come to Japan by yourself, it’s a great way to meet new people in similar conditions.

Ryoko: That’s true. All right.

Nelson: And I think this concept of shared housing, maybe, is different in other countries because that’s what you usually do when you’re in university, but you do not do that as a working adult. Maybe you share an apart with a friend. But, In Japan, it’s very common to have this kind of setting. And so I think it’s worth giving it a try. If you move to Japan and you make new friends, then later you can move to your own place.

Ryoko: OK. So, was it a mix of Japanese and foreigners where you stayed?

Nelson: Yes. And yeah, another thing is that usually, these are catered to foreigners as well. So the process to rent is simple because for renting an apartment in Japan, there are many restrictions.

Ryoko: That’s true. Yeah, I’ve heard that.

Nelson: So, it’s a good and easy way to deal with real estate. So yeah, there are always, like, many foreigners at such places. And some are only for women, for example.

And yeah, there is good availability, you know. And usually, the houses also offer more amenities. You know that I lived in one that had a rooftop in front of Tokyo Tower.

Ryoko: Oh, wow.

Nelson: I wouldn’t be able to rent an apartment like that by myself 😊. I’m not the one that was a sentō inside. So I think it can be fun, especially if you’re younger, in your twenties. So, I think it’s really good.

Ryoko: OK. Well, that’s good to know. OK. Then my last question would be: do you have any tips or advice for people who wish to work here in Japan or who are trying to get a job in Japan, like during maybe interviews or just their CV’s?

Nelson: I see. I think that CV-wise, it’s similar. There are some specific job boards that you may use, you know, particularly I use Daijob, for example, and then there are some specific ones. So, I think you may use these and really like put yourself to apply. And if you find some startups on LinkedIn, for example, reach out to the HR person or even the CEO of the companies as well. And I think it’s really an option that some people don’t think that’s possible, right?

You know that in Asia, a lot of Japanese companies will go to their country for recruiting. But if you are not from Asia, it’s different. For example, it doesn’t happen in Brazil. Japanese companies don’t come there to recruit people to work in Japan.

And many of my friends thought that it was very unlikely that I would get something like that. But it happened. So, it is possible, but you need to keep trying and pushing, you know, as anything in life, until you find an opportunity. And if you can show some Japanese skills, the employer might understand that you are serious about it, right?

Ryoko: That’s true. OK, great. Well, that’s it from my side.

Nelson: OK, that’s good.

Ryoko: And so, thank you for your time today. It was a pleasure to talk to you.

Nelson: Thank you so much for having me.

Ryoko: Yeah. Thank you so much.